Interview with His Eminence Menri Ponlop Trinley Nyima Rinpoche
November 2019 at Serenity Ridge
This interview with His Eminence Menri Ponlop Trinley Nyima Rinpoche, conducted by VOCL editors Jeff and Aline Fisher, took place at Serenity Ridge in November 2019 during His Eminence’s special retreat “Pith Instructions from the Golden Advice.” A renowned scholar and meditation master, His Eminence is the head instructor of Menri Monastery in Dolanji, India.
VOCL: You worked very hard during the time surrounding the passing of His Holiness Lungtok Tenpai Nyima Rinpoche, the 33rd Menri Trizin. Would you share some of your memories with us?
Ponlop Rinpoche: The 33rd Menri Trizin and Yongdzin Rinpoche [His Eminence Yongdzin Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche] chose me to become Ponlop back in 1992. Ponlop means the head teacher. From that time I have worked very closely with the 33rd Menri Trizin. So I have much experience being with the 33rd Menri Trizin, a really great master and great leader. I received many, many experiences and advice from him over all these years.
His Holiness the 33rd Menri Trizin Lungtok Tenpai Nyima Rinpoche and His Eminence Menri Ponlop Trinley Nyima RinpocheMenri Monastery is the main monastery in Bön. It is a large community made up of nuns and of the orphanage children and then the monks, the dialectic school monks. There are more than 550 people. It's quite a big community and a big responsibility. After His Holiness Menri 33rd became sick and had problems, I had some very big responsibilities there at Menri involving ritual and prayer, everything. But it was amazing, everything worked out just fine, very good, without any sort of problem! You see, His Holiness had given me advice on everything to do upon his passing. He shared his guidance on everything in that regard.
Just two or three days before his passing, His Holiness requested that he'd first like to see all of the older village people and that they could all come visit him. So he gave his blessing and his advice to all of them. Then after that he said that he wanted to meet with all of the children in the monastery, the young monks and young nuns. They all visited him and he gave his blessings to all of them, and he gave all of the children sweets. After that he requested that he wanted to see all of the monks, all the dialectic school monks. And he met with them. Everything that he wanted to do, he managed by himself in those last few days. So naturally, we did not stop anyone who really wanted to see him.
Then after His Holiness passed, it was another very challenging time. It was not easy. His passing was an issue not only for those of us at Menri Monastery, but for all of the Bönpos – outside of Tibet, inside Tibet and around the world. After His Holiness passed, we immediately made an announcement emphasizing that I wanted true transparency, I didn’t want to hide or keep secret anything in this process. There's no way. Everybody, every Bönpo and many followers, wanted to really know what the situation was, and get accurate information. So we made public everything in all its detail. We performed all of the rituals, the cremation – everything – in that manner.
Menri Monastery offering prayers to HH the 33rd Menri TrizinAfter he passed [on September 14, 2017], he stayed three days, almost four days in meditation. I announced everything in detail, too, to the whole world. Somebody said, oh you should take picture and show with photograph. So, I said okay, and we sent out a picture. It was a sign that we don't hide things. You see, for people now in this 21st century, it is very difficult to simply believe; they want to see what is really happening. If they see it for themselves, then they will feel happy. So I gave permission and we took a picture and sent it out.
And then I saw that people all over the world were very interested and very happy. In one way there is very much sadness around his passing, but in another way everyone becomes very united. And with the picture, people were very happy to see what was actually happening. Even in Buddhist centers they prayed and they sent letters to us. Not only Bönpos were supporting us, but the Buddhists too, the Sakya, Nyingma, Gelug, also the Tibetan communities in Europe, in the Americas, and in India and Tibet. They all did prayers. It was amazing. I could see His Holiness the 33rd had now become even more popular after his passing. He became famous.
All during that time I did not run into any problems or obstacles with regard to the monks or nuns in the monastery. It's a big responsibility, but I was not too worried. I didn't worry because I have had experience in keeping the monastery continuing. I've worked there for a long time, almost 40 years. And all of the monks helped me with everything. They never complained. It was very good. Yongdzin Rinpoche was available, too, whenever I requested his guidance and advice. As a result, everything went very well, no problem.
The great stupa of the 33rd Menri TrizinThen we set about building three stupas for His Holiness. Two of them are golden stupas. One of these is in his residence room at Menri. The other is in the stupa temple. And the third stupa is outside in the courtyard at Menri. That one is very big and made of the very best pure white marble without any green or black markings. It’s very expensive and pure like the marble on the Taj Mahal. The stupa is made of one single solid piece of marble, rather than many separate pieces of stone. So it's very strong and very, very heavy. There is space in the middle of it for the five elements, and for consecration or blessings.
Once all of that was taken care of and completed, then I turned my attention to preparing and organizing for the selection of the new 34th Menri Trizin. This was also a very big issue. Traditionally the process for selecting the new Menri Trizin is quite elaborate. But I received so much assistance from Yongdzin Rinpoche, because you see, at Menri Monastery, I am almost the most senior one there, the oldest one. Most are very young there. So I discussed everything, all the details of the process, with the other senior monks at Menri and with Yongdzin Rinpoche. And before beginning the selection process, I also had the special privilege of contacting a very high lama in Tibet. I shared with him all of my ideas about the process and asked for his thoughts and guidance. It was a very special experience, indeed. I did not decide everything myself. I really want always to first discuss with others, you know? And then afterwards I would make the final decision. Everyone then told me that however I decided to proceed, they would support me one hundred percent! So everything was laid out very well.
All aspects of the selection process were done very well. Everything went perfectly – everything. Also I made sure that at all times throughout the process, there was full transparency – no hiding anything or keeping secrets. Every aspect of the process we made sure to do perfectly – very honestly and clearly, including the ritual practices done in the protector temple. We made absolutely sure to write the names of all the geshes being considered on exactly the same size of paper, even using the same pen. We made sure to measure everything carefully so that no geshe was favored in the process. The tsampa pills that contained the names were measured precisely to be the same gram weight, so that no pill stood out or was in any way special. They were all identical. And there were many, many monks in attendance witnessing what was done.
Monks’ names being rolled into tsampa balls and weighed by Khenpo Tenpa Yungdrung RinpocheThen we sealed all of the pills in a special box using first a wax seal and then two or three locks so that it wouldn't be tampered with. It was also covered with a special silk cloth. Then all of the monks joined me in the main temple in front of the large statue of Buddha Tonpa Shenrap and we performed prayers and made offerings for two weeks, calling on all of the protectors and the deities.
Then the ritual selection was performed, and over time it came near the close, with the one final tsampa pill remaining. Before opening it to see who the new Menri Trizin was, I gave an empowerment touching the head of each person in attendance, saying that each person attending had a commitment to honor the one about to be chosen here. I said that whoever it is, recognize that they weren't chosen by me. They were chosen by the protectors, the deities. So, I said, we each must trust and believe that the choice made here is sealed by the protectors, by the deities. Therefore, we have to respect that choice, we have to trust that choice and follow and accept their decision. And I could see and feel that everybody there felt that way, you know, even myself.
Earlier, Yongdzin Rinpoche had told me that there was not going to be any problem. He said there will be no mistakes in the selection of the new Menri Trizin. He said that 500 years ago we selected the new Menri Trizin in this very same way. And there have never been any problems, nor has there ever been anyone who was mistakenly chosen. The selections in the past have always been perfect.
And true to his words, everything went perfectly and the new 34th Menri Trizin was selected and, as you already know, the outcome is very great! Very great!
Grand enthronement of the 34th Menri TrizinVOCL: Yes, and he's perfect.
Ponlop Rinpoche: Yes perfect. Lungtok Dawa Dhargyal Rinpoche grew up as a child in the same village as the 33rd Menri Trizin. He began as a young monk at Menri and worked in the monastery for many, many years and has lots of experience about how to do everything for continuing the monastery into the future, such as the economics, all of the rules, and so on, he knows everything. So, you see, it was a very great result!
VOCL: So now you can rest?
Ponlop Rinpoche: Yes, I can rest, for a bit. [laughter] But I need to help His Holiness the 34th, because he is new to this role. I will lend him any kind of help that I can give, say, with a transmission or an empowerment, I will be a support for him. You see, for a new leader, it is not easy. There are now lots of big responsibilities that he must attend to. So we will all support and help him together. This is very important.
Now everything is pretty much back to being the same as before when His Holiness the 33rd was still alive. All of the systems, the education and practices are running smoothly, and the rules of the monastery are followed, everything is continuing perfectly.
VOCL: We're so glad.
Ponlop Rinpoche: Yes, all Bönpos are now happy. In just one single year's time since the passing of the 33rd Menri Trizin, everything is completed in the perfect transition to the new 34th Menri Trizin. Yes, it's not an easy task choosing. I was so busy. But the deities and the protectors really, really did protect, and they really helped me. I really, really appreciate that and give my deepest thanks to them.
VOCL: We all prayed for that.
Ponlop Rinpoche: Ah, yes! Everybody prayed. And this is a big reason it went perfectly and had a very good outcome. And now, I've done my job. [laughter] Now I need to practice myself. Up until now I have always been talk, talk, talking with everyone all the time! Now I need to do some silent practice.
VOCL: What was the hardest part of the whole journey after His Holiness passed away?
Ponlop Rinpoche: First, a few days after His Holiness passed away, it was very hard, because there was this empty feeling; I was feeling very empty without him. Everyone was feeling that way. And on top of that, for me there was also the weight of this very big responsibility for my knowing how to proceed. You see at first, it felt as if I had lost everything with him gone. But in one very important way, I very much knew that this was all impermanent. Right? It's changeable. And I also had the good fortune to have been working for His Holiness and working for the monastery for a long time, almost 40 years. So I had very much experience with how to continue keeping all aspects of the monastery system running.
Then came the most challenging part, which was the selection of the new abbot, the new Menri Trizin. This issue was the most difficult one that I faced. But I planned out everything, making note of all of the details and then discussed each of them with the senior monks and with Yongdzin Rinpoche.
H.E. Menri Ponlop Rinpoche and H.E. Yongdzin RinpocheYongdzin Rinpoche supported me throughout the process and gave me guidance on many of the details. So initially I presumed that this selection process for the new Menri Trizin was going to be very difficult. But after a lot of careful planning, I simply focused on completing each successive step that I encountered along the way. And I noticed that it was all proceeding very much like a river running, you know? Flowing smoothly, rather than lurching or jumping along. It was moving very smoothly along with no problems arising at all!
And while some warned me that I would have a very difficult time with this complex selection process, saying that I would need much help, I was actually feeling quite normal in the midst of it, you know, not too worried. That's because the main responsibility that I had throughout the process was to be completely honest. And this is my nature, always to be honest, and not political. My natural instinct is to not hide or keep anything secret. Just honestly do the work that I have to do. This is my promise, my commitment. If there are not politics or anything that is kept hidden or secret along the way, then there will be no problem. Because if you are transparent, then everyone is able to see and understand what is happening. So though overseeing the selection process for the new Menri Trizin was naturally going to the most difficult challenge for me, it turned out that I was able to manage everything so well and it ran very smoothly. It's a miracle.
All of the monks were a very great support for me. We are all like one big family. If I told them to go in an easterly direction they would go. If I said to go in a westerly direction then they would go that way. They work very hard, the monks, they were very good. I'm really, really, really fortunate, because every monk was a support for me, also even the laypeople were supportive, everyone was very good to me, every Bönpo follower was a big help. And that's why I didn't have a hard time.
I believe, though, that really the biggest support came from His Holiness [the 33rd Menri Trizin] himself. He prayed daily while he was still alive. He prayed for us. He prayed for me, especially. So after he passed away, nothing arose as a problem or an obstacle.
Now I really believe more in and trust the deities and the protectors. Really, they did help me. Everything that went on without a problem is a great sign, a good sign. I was very surprised. And all the while I was not scared, not very worried. And the result was that everything has turned out very, very good! [laughter]
VOCL: Thank you, Rinpoche. Thuk-je-che!
Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche and H.E. Menri Ponlop Rinpoche
